Can you get a surprise attack by distracting an enemy who is aware of you?

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I'm currently playing as a halfling monk who is very fond of a drink. Let's say I encountered some enemies sitting around a campfire. Through means of deception or otherwise I ingratiate myself with the group enough so that they do not consider me an enemy. (My overall plan is to attack them).



At some point I cause some sort of commotion, for example spitting some of my highly flammable drink into the fire causing it to rear up and distract those sitting around it.



I am aware that I was planning this however the enemies weren't. Would I be able to use this distraction as the basis of a surprise attack?



TL:DR Can a planned distraction caused by my PC while enemies are aware of my presence, that sufficiently distracts their attention, constitute basis for a surprise attack?







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    up vote
    25
    down vote

    favorite












    I'm currently playing as a halfling monk who is very fond of a drink. Let's say I encountered some enemies sitting around a campfire. Through means of deception or otherwise I ingratiate myself with the group enough so that they do not consider me an enemy. (My overall plan is to attack them).



    At some point I cause some sort of commotion, for example spitting some of my highly flammable drink into the fire causing it to rear up and distract those sitting around it.



    I am aware that I was planning this however the enemies weren't. Would I be able to use this distraction as the basis of a surprise attack?



    TL:DR Can a planned distraction caused by my PC while enemies are aware of my presence, that sufficiently distracts their attention, constitute basis for a surprise attack?







    share|improve this question























      up vote
      25
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      25
      down vote

      favorite











      I'm currently playing as a halfling monk who is very fond of a drink. Let's say I encountered some enemies sitting around a campfire. Through means of deception or otherwise I ingratiate myself with the group enough so that they do not consider me an enemy. (My overall plan is to attack them).



      At some point I cause some sort of commotion, for example spitting some of my highly flammable drink into the fire causing it to rear up and distract those sitting around it.



      I am aware that I was planning this however the enemies weren't. Would I be able to use this distraction as the basis of a surprise attack?



      TL:DR Can a planned distraction caused by my PC while enemies are aware of my presence, that sufficiently distracts their attention, constitute basis for a surprise attack?







      share|improve this question













      I'm currently playing as a halfling monk who is very fond of a drink. Let's say I encountered some enemies sitting around a campfire. Through means of deception or otherwise I ingratiate myself with the group enough so that they do not consider me an enemy. (My overall plan is to attack them).



      At some point I cause some sort of commotion, for example spitting some of my highly flammable drink into the fire causing it to rear up and distract those sitting around it.



      I am aware that I was planning this however the enemies weren't. Would I be able to use this distraction as the basis of a surprise attack?



      TL:DR Can a planned distraction caused by my PC while enemies are aware of my presence, that sufficiently distracts their attention, constitute basis for a surprise attack?









      share|improve this question












      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited yesterday









      KorvinStarmast

      63.8k13199347




      63.8k13199347









      asked yesterday









      FrazzleUK

      12827




      12827




















          3 Answers
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          up vote
          46
          down vote



          accepted










          If a creature doesn't notice a threat, it is surprised by it



          As per the basic rules:




          The DM determines who might be surprised. ... Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.




          I'd interpret this to mean that if a creature regards you as nonthreatening and does not expect you to attack them, it is a surprise if you suddenly attack them, because they did not notice the threat. However, it is ultimately the DM's determination as to whether or not surprise applies.



          If I were DMing this kind of encounter, I would probably call for a Deception vs. Insight skill check between your character and the enemies to see if you're able to hide your intentions sufficiently well that your actions take them by surprise. I would likewise be minded to give you advantage on that check if your attempt incorporates something very distracting and confusing - like causing the campfire to flare up.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
            – dphil
            9 hours ago






          • 2




            @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
            – Carcer
            8 hours ago

















          up vote
          7
          down vote













          It depends



          First, the one who declares a situation is a surprise to the other party is the DM. He is the one who knows what the enemies are doing, and what is the state of awareness of them.



          What you describe could work. Surprised means the enemy is not anticipating an attack, or not ready for it. If I was the DM, I would describe them trying to put off the fire before it spreads, lowering their guard.



          However, if they are actually anticipating an attack and constantly on alert, I might rule that some of them are not surprised, or just giving the PCs advantage on initiative instead of surprise.



          Additionally, this one qualifies as a clever idea in my book, and thus might grant them inspiration (or the one who come up with the idea)






          share|improve this answer






























            up vote
            4
            down vote













            The books do not give detailed rules or even guidelines for surprise, only that:




            The DM determines who might be surprised. (PHB 189)




            The short section in the PHB only speaks about sneaking up on someone, but it does not seem the list they give is exhaustive.



            In this case, as a DM, I personally would ask for a Charisma(Performance) versus Wisdom(Perception) opposed check. If the enemies win, they are not surprised, otherwise they are.






            share|improve this answer





















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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              46
              down vote



              accepted










              If a creature doesn't notice a threat, it is surprised by it



              As per the basic rules:




              The DM determines who might be surprised. ... Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.




              I'd interpret this to mean that if a creature regards you as nonthreatening and does not expect you to attack them, it is a surprise if you suddenly attack them, because they did not notice the threat. However, it is ultimately the DM's determination as to whether or not surprise applies.



              If I were DMing this kind of encounter, I would probably call for a Deception vs. Insight skill check between your character and the enemies to see if you're able to hide your intentions sufficiently well that your actions take them by surprise. I would likewise be minded to give you advantage on that check if your attempt incorporates something very distracting and confusing - like causing the campfire to flare up.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1




                So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
                – dphil
                9 hours ago






              • 2




                @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
                – Carcer
                8 hours ago














              up vote
              46
              down vote



              accepted










              If a creature doesn't notice a threat, it is surprised by it



              As per the basic rules:




              The DM determines who might be surprised. ... Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.




              I'd interpret this to mean that if a creature regards you as nonthreatening and does not expect you to attack them, it is a surprise if you suddenly attack them, because they did not notice the threat. However, it is ultimately the DM's determination as to whether or not surprise applies.



              If I were DMing this kind of encounter, I would probably call for a Deception vs. Insight skill check between your character and the enemies to see if you're able to hide your intentions sufficiently well that your actions take them by surprise. I would likewise be minded to give you advantage on that check if your attempt incorporates something very distracting and confusing - like causing the campfire to flare up.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1




                So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
                – dphil
                9 hours ago






              • 2




                @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
                – Carcer
                8 hours ago












              up vote
              46
              down vote



              accepted







              up vote
              46
              down vote



              accepted






              If a creature doesn't notice a threat, it is surprised by it



              As per the basic rules:




              The DM determines who might be surprised. ... Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.




              I'd interpret this to mean that if a creature regards you as nonthreatening and does not expect you to attack them, it is a surprise if you suddenly attack them, because they did not notice the threat. However, it is ultimately the DM's determination as to whether or not surprise applies.



              If I were DMing this kind of encounter, I would probably call for a Deception vs. Insight skill check between your character and the enemies to see if you're able to hide your intentions sufficiently well that your actions take them by surprise. I would likewise be minded to give you advantage on that check if your attempt incorporates something very distracting and confusing - like causing the campfire to flare up.






              share|improve this answer















              If a creature doesn't notice a threat, it is surprised by it



              As per the basic rules:




              The DM determines who might be surprised. ... Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.




              I'd interpret this to mean that if a creature regards you as nonthreatening and does not expect you to attack them, it is a surprise if you suddenly attack them, because they did not notice the threat. However, it is ultimately the DM's determination as to whether or not surprise applies.



              If I were DMing this kind of encounter, I would probably call for a Deception vs. Insight skill check between your character and the enemies to see if you're able to hide your intentions sufficiently well that your actions take them by surprise. I would likewise be minded to give you advantage on that check if your attempt incorporates something very distracting and confusing - like causing the campfire to flare up.







              share|improve this answer















              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited yesterday


























              answered yesterday









              Carcer

              14.4k23382




              14.4k23382







              • 1




                So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
                – dphil
                9 hours ago






              • 2




                @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
                – Carcer
                8 hours ago












              • 1




                So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
                – dphil
                9 hours ago






              • 2




                @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
                – Carcer
                8 hours ago







              1




              1




              So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
              – dphil
              9 hours ago




              So, according to this, having a casual conversation with an NPC... and then suddenly sucker punching them mid convo is also considered surprise. (with a standard deception if deemed necessary)
              – dphil
              9 hours ago




              2




              2




              @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
              – Carcer
              8 hours ago




              @dphil yes, that would be consistent with my interpretation of the rules. You don't need to specifically cause a distraction, but it seems reasonable for a distraction to help somehow.
              – Carcer
              8 hours ago












              up vote
              7
              down vote













              It depends



              First, the one who declares a situation is a surprise to the other party is the DM. He is the one who knows what the enemies are doing, and what is the state of awareness of them.



              What you describe could work. Surprised means the enemy is not anticipating an attack, or not ready for it. If I was the DM, I would describe them trying to put off the fire before it spreads, lowering their guard.



              However, if they are actually anticipating an attack and constantly on alert, I might rule that some of them are not surprised, or just giving the PCs advantage on initiative instead of surprise.



              Additionally, this one qualifies as a clever idea in my book, and thus might grant them inspiration (or the one who come up with the idea)






              share|improve this answer



























                up vote
                7
                down vote













                It depends



                First, the one who declares a situation is a surprise to the other party is the DM. He is the one who knows what the enemies are doing, and what is the state of awareness of them.



                What you describe could work. Surprised means the enemy is not anticipating an attack, or not ready for it. If I was the DM, I would describe them trying to put off the fire before it spreads, lowering their guard.



                However, if they are actually anticipating an attack and constantly on alert, I might rule that some of them are not surprised, or just giving the PCs advantage on initiative instead of surprise.



                Additionally, this one qualifies as a clever idea in my book, and thus might grant them inspiration (or the one who come up with the idea)






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  7
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  7
                  down vote









                  It depends



                  First, the one who declares a situation is a surprise to the other party is the DM. He is the one who knows what the enemies are doing, and what is the state of awareness of them.



                  What you describe could work. Surprised means the enemy is not anticipating an attack, or not ready for it. If I was the DM, I would describe them trying to put off the fire before it spreads, lowering their guard.



                  However, if they are actually anticipating an attack and constantly on alert, I might rule that some of them are not surprised, or just giving the PCs advantage on initiative instead of surprise.



                  Additionally, this one qualifies as a clever idea in my book, and thus might grant them inspiration (or the one who come up with the idea)






                  share|improve this answer















                  It depends



                  First, the one who declares a situation is a surprise to the other party is the DM. He is the one who knows what the enemies are doing, and what is the state of awareness of them.



                  What you describe could work. Surprised means the enemy is not anticipating an attack, or not ready for it. If I was the DM, I would describe them trying to put off the fire before it spreads, lowering their guard.



                  However, if they are actually anticipating an attack and constantly on alert, I might rule that some of them are not surprised, or just giving the PCs advantage on initiative instead of surprise.



                  Additionally, this one qualifies as a clever idea in my book, and thus might grant them inspiration (or the one who come up with the idea)







                  share|improve this answer















                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited yesterday


























                  answered yesterday









                  Vylix

                  4,36111172




                  4,36111172




















                      up vote
                      4
                      down vote













                      The books do not give detailed rules or even guidelines for surprise, only that:




                      The DM determines who might be surprised. (PHB 189)




                      The short section in the PHB only speaks about sneaking up on someone, but it does not seem the list they give is exhaustive.



                      In this case, as a DM, I personally would ask for a Charisma(Performance) versus Wisdom(Perception) opposed check. If the enemies win, they are not surprised, otherwise they are.






                      share|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        4
                        down vote













                        The books do not give detailed rules or even guidelines for surprise, only that:




                        The DM determines who might be surprised. (PHB 189)




                        The short section in the PHB only speaks about sneaking up on someone, but it does not seem the list they give is exhaustive.



                        In this case, as a DM, I personally would ask for a Charisma(Performance) versus Wisdom(Perception) opposed check. If the enemies win, they are not surprised, otherwise they are.






                        share|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          4
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          4
                          down vote









                          The books do not give detailed rules or even guidelines for surprise, only that:




                          The DM determines who might be surprised. (PHB 189)




                          The short section in the PHB only speaks about sneaking up on someone, but it does not seem the list they give is exhaustive.



                          In this case, as a DM, I personally would ask for a Charisma(Performance) versus Wisdom(Perception) opposed check. If the enemies win, they are not surprised, otherwise they are.






                          share|improve this answer













                          The books do not give detailed rules or even guidelines for surprise, only that:




                          The DM determines who might be surprised. (PHB 189)




                          The short section in the PHB only speaks about sneaking up on someone, but it does not seem the list they give is exhaustive.



                          In this case, as a DM, I personally would ask for a Charisma(Performance) versus Wisdom(Perception) opposed check. If the enemies win, they are not surprised, otherwise they are.







                          share|improve this answer













                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer











                          answered yesterday









                          Szega

                          32.9k4136169




                          32.9k4136169






















                               

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